Neverside

Originally posted by Rad:

NeverAPI is useful only in a fantasy world where people have unlimited time to waste for miniscule increases in performance. From Mr. Hardass himself:

Originally posted by Locke:

When you work with more than 1 developer, OOP is the route to go. Whether or not you sacrifice speed or not is irrelevant, if it's a team project OOP wins.

Hardware prices drop significantly faster than the cost of development. This wasn't apparent because the programmer cost factor was seemingly irrelevant due to good people like Jeremie and Scott who were nice enough to spend time doing charity work for this site. If this site is to go anywhere, there needs to be motivation behind it.

Thanks for the pep talk Rad, as usual you know about as much of what you're talking about as a regular member. Don't call me names either, I didn't call you anything. I haven't had a problem with you in sometime, but apparently you want to be cute and say stuff like Mr. Hardass.

Lets make 3 things very clear. For one, I never profited from Neverside or TutorialForums, if anything I spent money rather than earned any. The original plans for this site were just a simple extension to the community for tutorials and the 'drive and motivation' of the staff and developers drove it into more. Secondly, I spent more time here than the rest of the staff, I made time for them and I made time to organize things and get them done. Charity work or not, back then we believed in bettering the community, only when money came into the picture did the motivation and so forth lack and the focus and direction changed. Don't volunteer (read that as volunteering, not me begging/demanding you to do it) to do something if you don't intend to follow through. Thirdly, there is more to development than everything being 'custom' or out of the 'ordinary'. It's the overall atmosphere that defines the community and the features simply highlight and enrich that. The software is nothing more than the faciliator, anything will work long as the community is the atmosphere that people look for.

If this site is to go anywhere, it needs to switch to vBB and ignore advice from people who have had about as much of an active role in the development of the site as a lurker. You have more failed/unrealized projects than most of the developers who have worked on this site, don't tell me or anyone else what is fantasy land when your own ideals and so forth were never attained.

NeverAPI was useful in a world where it was concieved that it would be documented and actively prepared for anyone to take over. However, I don't need to tell you how things tend to not 'work out' or really become realized. (Weaver, Feedsink, etc.)

Stick to what you know Radford, switching to vBB is the best choice for this community, and whether or not it blends in with everything else will rely on the development and extensibility built into vBB 3.6 (which I'm sure you still know nothing about, so you really don't need to comment). Not to mention the design and the UI development that can change how vB looks and behaves.

Thanks.

This really needs to get back on topic by the way.

___________________

The Audoptic Weblog. It's where the magic happens.

Last edited by Locke, August 17th, 2006 10:00 AM (Edited 2 times)

I would like to make several points.

Rad, you need to step off your high-and-mighty Ruby, RoR, and lighttpd totem pole. Seriously. First off, MVC doesn't work in every situation on the motherfucking planet. Apparently you've never met my good friend C. Let me introduce you to its friends: the Linux kernel, GTK, Gnome. The list goes on. IRCds, browsers. Practically any type of program under the sun as at least one C implementation. Does everything have an RoR implementation, or even an MVC implementation? No. Is it because the developers have no fucking clue what they're doing and don't understand the concept of MVC? Of course not!

Look, Rad, OOP is not the answer to everything. Yeah, it works, and yeah, it makes things nice and easy to extend and so on and so forth. And yeah, you know, Neverside could have clearly benefited from an OOP implementation of some sort. But here's the thing: what's done is done. It's procedural code, it's written in PHP(4) backed by MySQL, and it actually works (to most extents). Which is more than you can say for what you've written, I think. Me too.

So give it up: throwing RoR or whatever MVC frameworks are suiting your fancy at the moment won't change things. NS is not going to design a new custom site based on an MVC framework. Period. Not happening. They don't have the resources.

Next: Kidd, you seriously need to get your facts straight. Shawn was not one of the founders of TutorialForums. (By the way, the "other guy" is Spoono.) He came in much later in the game, and basically did server upkeep and helped with the launch of NS. You have no room to talk about who has jumped ship and who hasn't. Hell, James/uranther has been here since what, February of 2002? He's still plenty active. People come and people go, but you don't have to be a dick about it ("meh"? fredmv certainly doesn't fucking deserve a "meh").

Furthermore, whatever happened to Jerome's site that you promised to complete for free? http://forums.neverside.com/thread/92826/. I don't see any conclusive evidence that it was ever uploaded. Was it ever even finished, or was that some sort of BS?

Dan, I can't agree with everything you said. You made good points. I don't know exactly how you know all of that about Dave, and what parts of it are true and not true, but I have reason to believe that at least some of it is based on assumptions rather than fact. We haven't been staff for nearly a year now, and we don't honestly know how the tables have turned.

And Shawn, I still can't agree with you on switching to vB either. I don't personally know what the best course of action is for Neverside at this point. vB would work... for a while, anyway. Would the users get frustrated? Maybe. Can't tell. Would NS have another 3 months of downtime while Scott finds the time to integrate the Studio into vB? Possibly. Or launch without the Studio. What does that mean? Are we going backwards or forwards here?

Yeah, I think I'll end with that. Take a look at this thread, mates. Where are we going? Backwards or forwards?

___________________

<3

Originally posted by Noel:

And Shawn, I still can't agree with you on switching to vB either. I don't personally know what the best course of action is for Neverside at this point. vB would work... for a while, anyway. Would the users get frustrated? Maybe. Can't tell. Would NS have another 3 months of downtime while Scott finds the time to integrate the Studio into vB? Possibly. Or launch without the Studio. What does that mean? Are we going backwards or forwards here?

Point taken, you know my opinions on vB and you know I do not think that highly of it. However, certain pieces of software are exceptions to my rule, vBB would be good for NS.

I've talked with Dave a bit about the option, he seems to have his own theories and so forth on it. He's talked of using PhotoPost which is the popular gallery addon for vBulletin communities. There's also several other choices, I doubt anything from NS will be ported over aside from the users, posts, threads and forums. Anything else they can figure out what to do with.

I believe going with vBB will put Dave back in control of what can get done and what can't. There's a huge community following around vBB and while the same can be said for MVCs, there's more work involved for MVC and more costs/time needed. Where with vBB there is much more Dave can do, and much more help available and able.

Dave can do upgrades, as Jelsoft will actively develop and maintain the core of the engine. The developers can extend it with the Hooks system without every affecting the core. Therefore things like security and bugs can be relayed to Jelsoft for bugfix releases, long as they are bugs apart of vB and not the extensions.

___________________

The Audoptic Weblog. It's where the magic happens.

**** that noise. I'll stop when you do. I've owned up to my own inadequacy. Kiss my *** hippy. I don't care one way or the other how you get your rocks off. And for the record, you could never put me in my place. This is an internet forum. Lydia posted something about facades. Fitting, isn't it?

Anywho, I didn't condescend when I stated the obvious. You've posted the same fucking thing: "Please refer to my signature" in almost all your recent posts. If that is all you have to say, then that isn;t going to work. Before you go and pull more bullshit, let me state this. I've gone to threads and simply posted random things such as: "meh", "lol", "wtf" etc. since Simon started that: "Refer to my sig" ****, you've made it boring and hardly funny anymore. Sometimes, a nice thoughtful post is in order for some discussions. This one is an exception.

As for threatening you, where did I display a need to cause you mental or physical harm?

And where did I knock you for being on staff? I never said you sucked for being on staff. I simply stated that you had issues with management. And I do know why most of the staff left because I have contacted them. Locke can validate that. Not once did I say anything about you being on staff a negative thing. Just pointed out things that I PERCEIVED WAS AN ISSUE.

Liek I said before. I'll be the bigger man and walk away. Nothing will be gained out of this except the fact you probably have an erection off of arguing with me.

___________________

Neverside - In Development. Expected Release: Unknown.
Tortustudios.com - In Development. Expected Release: Summer 2006.( You can visit it now)

Can we get back on the damn topic? Christ.

Anyone else who has any other ideas that doesn't involve a MVC, please post them.

___________________

The Audoptic Weblog. It's where the magic happens.

Originally posted by kidd175:

**** that noise. I'll stop when you do. I've owned up to my own inadequacy. Kiss my *** hippy. I don't care one way or the other how you get your rocks off. And for the record, you could never put me in my place. This is an internet forum. Lydia posted something about facades. Fitting, isn't it?

Anywho, I didn't condescend when I stated the obvious. You've posted the same fucking thing: "Please refer to my signature" in almost all your recent posts. If that is all you have to say, then that isn;t going to work. Before you go and pull more bullshit, let me state this. I've gone to threads and simply posted random things such as: "meh", "lol", "wtf" etc. since Simon started that: "Refer to my sig" ****, you've made it boring and hardly funny anymore. Sometimes, a nice thoughtful post is in order for some discussions. This one is an exception.

As for threatening you, where did I display a need to cause you mental or physical harm?

And where did I knock you for being on staff? I never said you sucked for being on staff. I simply stated that you had issues with management. And I do know why most of the staff left because I have contacted them. Locke can validate that. Not once did I say anything about you being on staff a negative thing. Just pointed out things that I PERCEIVED WAS AN ISSUE.

Liek I said before. I'll be the bigger man and walk away. Nothing will be gained out of this except the fact you probably have an erection off of arguing with me.

I'm contributing to a discussion, aren't I? Which is what you were ripping on me for. I think I've proven my point several times over.

And seriously, kidd, you blow at English. I can't understand half of your fucking posts because they don't make any sense.

Originally posted by kidd175:

Sometimes, a nice thoughtful post is in order for some discussions. This one is an exception.

= This one is no exception?*

mm ... not sure. Earlier you stated something along the lines of:

Originally posted by kidd175:

I'm not even going to quote you on anything. You can "win" this and I'll take the bandaid. I'll save it for when YOU need it. I can take defeat and "humiliation." Go ahead, ***** some more. I'LL READ EVERY FUCKING LETTER AND PUNCTUATION MARK thrice times over to absorb all of your ranting wisdom.

Telling me I need a bandaid is very threatening. I may need to consult a shrink.

Sigh... I give up.

___________________

The Audoptic Weblog. It's where the magic happens.

Originally posted by Locke:

Sigh... I give up.

Nah, I'm done.

I'll close this with my end rant tag:

</rant>

Originally posted by Noel:

Next: Kidd, you seriously need to get your facts straight. Shawn was not one of the founders of TutorialForums. (By the way, the "other guy" is Spoono.) He came in much later in the game, and basically did server upkeep and helped with the launch of NS. You have no room to talk about who has jumped ship and who hasn't. Hell, James/uranther has been here since what, February of 2002? He's still plenty active. People come and people go, but you don't have to be a dick about it ("meh"? fredmv certainly doesn't fucking deserve a "meh").

Furthermore, whatever happened to Jerome's site that you promised to complete for free? http://forums.neverside.com/thread/92826/. I don't see any conclusive evidence that it was ever uploaded. Was it ever even finished, or was that some sort of BS?

I like Fred. I would never "meh" him. But some, that aren't active, do they still deserve the priviledge that was given to them so long ago? As for founding staff, they are founding staff. Nothing I can do about that.

And I did finish Jeremie's layout. http://tortustudios.com/ImageBin/phpmonkey2.psd You can find it there. There are some more things I am thinking of changing around and I need to talk with him about some things, but that is complete at the moment. And I did the FIRST Neverside Winamp Skin that got hated on. I'm coding it as we read these posts. I am contributing the best way I know how. And that is by being active in the community.

MEH!

___________________

Neverside - In Development. Expected Release: Unknown.
Tortustudios.com - In Development. Expected Release: Summer 2006.( You can visit it now)

Back on topic...How long would it take to port NS over to vB? And what is "Hooks"? I don't follow Jelsoft software at all so...I'll take a look at that and get lost in the jargon.

Locke, I wuv ewe!

___________________

Neverside - In Development. Expected Release: Unknown.
Tortustudios.com - In Development. Expected Release: Summer 2006.( You can visit it now)