Neverside

>_> Damn. A free case of bawls.

And they were good.

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Neverside - In Development. Expected Release: Unknown.
Tortustudios.com - In Development. Expected Release: Summer 2006.( You can visit it now)

I don't think it's worth giving up and switching to vBB. In Rails, it probably wouldn't take more than until the beginning of September to get a clone of the forums running. (I'm saying Rails in specific because that's the only agile framework I'm fluent in.) Setting up vBB will be fast, but extending it past pre-made plugins will be slow.

Originally posted by Rad:

I don't think it's worth giving up and switching to vBB. In Rails, it probably wouldn't take more than until the beginning of September to get a clone of the forums running. (I'm saying Rails in specific because that's the only agile framework I'm fluent in.) Setting up vBB will be fast, but extending it past pre-made plugins will be slow.

Or they could install Weaver

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"The man who makes no mistakes does not usually make anything."� - Edward J. Phelps

Last edited by kobs, August 16th, 2006 07:40 PM (Edited 1 times)

i want a case of free stuff

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:: pop ::

Originally posted by Rad:

I don't think it's worth giving up and switching to vBB. In Rails, it probably wouldn't take more than until the beginning of September to get a clone of the forums running.

No doubt, but who here knows Ruby? You also have to consider the fact that even going to a PHP MVC like PHP On Trax (lol), CakePHP or Agavi is still development work. It is going to take a lot of manhours to build it then lets talk about maintaining it.

Obviously no one here could really maintain NeverAPI (I'm not saying it's as clean or well documented [wait... documentation]), now you're saying that it would be more 'worth it' to switch to something that only a handful of people would know and then ask them to maintain it.

This is why developers cannot be project managers, you think in the area of how it would be easy for YOU rather than the one who is overseeing it all (Dave in this case). Dave honestly has no idea how any of this works, but he has an understanding of vBB and he knows several others who operate large communities powered by vBB, therefore he has connections to make it to where he is more in control than the developers he brings on.

Don't confuse this with backing vBB, I still think it's a jerry rigged POS sometimes.

Originally posted by Rad:

(I'm saying Rails in specific because that's the only agile framework I'm fluent in.) Setting up vBB will be fast, but extending it past pre-made plugins will be slow.

You've never really used vB3.5 or 3.6 Gold for that matter, so how do you know? vB has an amazing community of developers who do nothing but develop for the thing, and you're going to say extending it past pre-made plugins will be slow. That's an assumption, an ignorant one at that.

vB.org has the most modifications and so forth for any piece of software I've ever seen. There are people there who study every new release of vB and they understand it's backend and it's extensibility better than you or I do. So if Dave wanted to 'extend' it past 'pre-made' I'm sure he can find someone for hire (there's quite a few also) to custom create one.

The hooks system also makes it easier to implement such features and additions because now Dave can upgrade the backend of the site and not really risk damaging things like what happened with the vB2 and early vB3 series.

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Therefore, in conclusion moving to vB would be worth it in the end because it is Dave in the end who is responsible for this community. Using vB would put him more in control with where things go rather than hoping a custom backend will get worked on by a developer who I know will go wtf at it.

Not to mention rebuilding everything from scratch with another MVC would be another lengthly venture and probably costly. Where the costs with running vB can be reduced, Dave knows other people who use the exact same software and hire people even to develop it and extend it. So really, it IS worth it in the end, when you think of it from a project management point of view. This is a specific case in which vB is worth it.

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The Audoptic Weblog. It's where the magic happens.

^ YEAH what he said

:: runs and hides ::

but seriously, i can't even begin to imagine how hard it must be to run a decent sized community, hand develop everything, and also hold a fulltime job.

no way, i barely have time for my fulltime job.

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:: pop ::

Originally posted by kobs:

Or they could install Weaver

Making Weaver? was a very important learning experience for me. Two years ago I actually worked on it, and during the process I learned about OO which eventually lead me to Rails. I know you were excited about it, so I'm sorry to disappoint.

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I think resorting to vBB is just ignoring the real problem: people don't want to spend so much time on a project that doesn't reward them in any real way. If the developers were paid, the site would benefit hugely.

P.S. I don't like vBB because it has too much crap. Neverside has an opportunity to make things different, but using vBB just means it will blend in with every other forum unless the word done on it is exceptional. I find that hard to expect when development is done as a donation.

P.S.#2 If you do go with vBB, at least open up an API so people can make tools without being a developer.

Radley, what is going to seperate NS from other comms is the atmosphere we create around it and the presence we develop. Just because 99.3% of the internets use vBB doesn't mean one damn thing except that it is a trusted forum machine with the necessary features to create a community around. If we really want to develop NS apart from the other comms, we design exceptional skins and our very own hacks and plugins that make the site better. I know I already have a few designs on paper for Neverside once it goes to vBB and I hope others will follow suit.

Also, once vBB NS is released, I agree with you 100% that the NeverAPI (with Roach's permission and Pelletier's of course) will go public so that more people can study it and see how it is superior to vBB in terms of speed. Once that happens, maybe it can be bundled and sold like vBB?

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Neverside - In Development. Expected Release: Unknown.
Tortustudios.com - In Development. Expected Release: Summer 2006.( You can visit it now)

Originally posted by kidd175:

Radley, what is going to seperate NS from other comms is the atmosphere we create around it and the presence we develop. Just because 99.3% of the internets use vBB doesn't mean one damn thing except that it is a trusted forum machine with the necessary features to create a community around. If we really want to develop NS apart from the other comms, we design exceptional skins and our very own hacks and plugins that make the site better. I know I already have a few designs on paper for Neverside once it goes to vBB and I hope others will follow suit.

Also, once vBB NS is released, I agree with you 100% that the NeverAPI (with Roach's permission and Pelletier's of course) will go public so that more people can study it and see how it is superior to vBB in terms of speed. Once that happens, maybe it can be bundled and sold like vBB?

Please refer to my signature.