Neverside

I can justify both pretty easily.

for the first one, most of the design related fields on this forum are dead. on most of the ever growing forums, such as sitepoint - there are usually 2-3 very strong people that run the forum and are the first to answer questions, and know just about everything on the subject. Neverside seems to be a following of mostly young people who don't have the experience to fill such a role. So why not go somewhere were you can get quick solid answers?

for the 2nd, I posted not to long ago about how if people posted anything negative about the forum, even in a respectable/reasonable way it was either locked or the people where bitched at. I was even banned once for a few days (why locke decided to unbann me I still dont' know ? )for making comments about how hard things where to read here and how it made it terrible for reading anything - anyway, any feedback wasn't very welcome on the site, and not much was done to make sure the users were happy. Especially if they start making changes when things arn't broken - which I guess could be said from the beginning with TF.

double post...

Last edited by rosem, October 8th, 2005 06:46 PM (Edited 1 times)

Ok Well I'm sure the Neverside staff have taken your points into consideration. Things will be done. Just wait.

Since I'm no longer having any official bands tied with Neverside I will speak my mind a bit more clear than usual here.

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Originally posted by rosem:

personally, here is what is killing neverside for me.

I'm just curious, why are you still here Mike? I don't doubt that you mean what you say but why are still here telling others how Neverside is bad in all kinds of ways? Neverside has a group of members (very good members might I add) that are dedicated to the community, don't walk around and say things just to ruin their spirit. Please.

Originally posted by rosem:

1) WORST LAUNCH EVER! - What was suppose to be launched as a supermega forum with cool features etc.. after being months late it was launched 10% complete. Waiting for something is fine, but at least launch with all the features you left off with, and not less (ie, PMs, search, etc...).

I wouldn't have the balls to use the word "ever" but yes, it wasn't what most people would call a successful launch. However one would think that it was a passed by chapter by now and not something that still "kills Neverside".

Originally posted by rosem:

2) No strong community members - This community doesn't have any real pros in any given area. Talent is what brings people to a site. If people see an amazing website / design and they relize that person that made it belongs to a forum, they might stop by to ask a few questions in hope of getting better. As of now, I think most people just post in the watercooler forum mostly to chat with previous TF members. Even the neversidian articles don't have that much to pull people here.

Not only did you offend the entire member-base in one effective blow young Jedi, you also did it with totally unjustified remarks. I don't know how Neverside's flash and web-design member-base looks like right now but I do know that Neverside has awesome talents in other areas (development especially but also such things as 3d modeling and music). Just because there might be a current low in one area doesn't mean it is in all areas and nor does it mean that it'll always be like that. I see a lot of people here climbing upwards in terms of talent, don't forget that you once were one of the climbers (or should still be considered as such perhaps).

Originally posted by rosem:

3) Slow progress - this doesn't help the site at all either really. I know you said it's getting worked on, but like I said earlier, this forum has less features than any other place, WTF?

Not much to say, everyone is aware about all this and nobody ignores the problem. The development road of Neverside has been bumpy and has had quite a few turns. This however, doesn't mean that the entire staff sit on their asses thinking that it doesn't matter.

As of now, they (the staff) are re-organizing themselves. There is no lack of will and skill in the staff, it just has to be pumped through in another way to stop clogs in the system from appearing all too often.

Originally posted by rosem:

4) Not listening to members - This one pissed me off the most. Locke on his high horse would hardly ever listen to members on what they want to see. Font sizes, colors, etc... are still hard to read on this site, and not much has been done to please the members and keep them around. And then someone has the balls to change the forum index to something even harder to read, when no one even complained about it to begin with. Stick with working on complaints and not making new ones.

That's a load of ******. Neverside surely listen to their members as long as the suggestion isn't: "BRING BACK TF LOLZ". There's even a feedback forum nowadays as we've been suggesting people to mail instead of using the Water Cooler with rather mixed success. I've never seen Shawn as someone sitting on a "high horse" either, not at TF nor here.

As for the one(s) having the balls to change the forum-index, that was Shawn and I. Who are you to say that no one ever complained about it? A lot of people voiced their opinions about it and changes were done. This wasn't meant to be the "omg final let's keep it now!" change done to it, it was supposed to be a first attempt to get some things right with this design until the re-design got done. Last thing I did in my position was to start a (internal) discussion about what could make it better and how would could have a mix to satisfy "everyone". We didn't aim to steal your candy Mike.

Originally posted by rosem:

TF was fine as it was. Even if you wanted to do something different - TF should have been kept up, and neverside should have been a side project and worked on until DONE, and launched only when 100% happy with the outcome.

Just my 2 cents from my experience with TF in the past, and working on other things. And as locke brought up before I DID own tutorialbuddy.com but quickly sold it once it was semi developed .

I think Shawn have explained enough times why they (the current owners and Shawn) wanted to escape from TutorialForums ASAP, take it or leave it.

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Deep in my banks of memories do I have to dig, until I find a character as self-centered and self-absorbed as you are. Have you ever considered to shine up and put a smile on your face for just one day? I don't even remember when you were active in the community for the sake of the community and not to bash the current administration and general site development progress. I guess you didn't get to say good-bye to TF or something, fear not however, I come with the anti-drug you so deeply desire: Tutorial Forums. Download it, print it (I suggest Lustre(tm) print as I have nothing bad to say about it) and hang it on your wall.

"Just my 2 cents."

Edit: Looks like sunshine made another post. I don't have much to say anymore...

Originally posted by rosem:

for the 2nd, I posted not to long ago about how if people posted anything negative about the forum, even in a respectable/reasonable way it was either locked or the people where bitched at. I was even banned once for a few days (why locke decided to unbann me I still dont' know ? )for making comments about how hard things where to read here and how it made it terrible for reading anything - anyway, any feedback wasn't very welcome on the site, and not much was done to make sure the users were happy. Especially if they start making changes when things arn't broken - which I guess could be said from the beginning with TF.

I have never seen a post being locked or removed for the cause of people suggesting or asking something in a negative way. Unless you consider the oh so cheerful "THE STAFF SUX THE STAFF SUX THE STAFF SUX" posts as something we should leave in the Water Cooler at least, how those are suggestions or any type of proper feedback is beyond me. Look again at the locked posts, you will see that they were locked as we wanted them to contact us by email instead of putting it in the Water Cooler. Now we have a forum set up for it as apparently email's are quite the hard tool to use.

Once again, if a thread didn't contain any kind of offensive material they have been left where they are (assuming they weren't in the wrong forum).

As I'm actually reaching a dollar more than "2 cents" I'm going to stop here.

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Neversidian, your staff is broken.

Last edited by Simon, October 8th, 2005 07:24 PM (Edited 1 times)

My thoughts are expressed here:

http://designerpad.org/v2/2005/10/08/what-went-wrong

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http://designerpad.org

I rarely see Mike contribute outside of 'bash NS for it's problems' threads. Therefore 96% of what he has to say in the majority of the time is ignored. Why? Simple, who wants to listen to a whiner who thinks he knows everything. Tell me Mike, did you apply all of these great principles to your premade template and pre-bought mascot/template TutorialBuddy.com community?

Locked threads for negativity? Don't make me laugh, you even posted in a thread that didn't ask for your opinion on Neverside's state of affairs. You just don't want to miss an opportunity to express your deadbeat views and you think it's as easy as installing a vBulletin modification to get it done, here's a tip, it's not.

In reality, these threads are not asking or looking for 'reviews' from you Mike, or really anyone. We are stating that we are moving on in order to allow Neverside to do what it needs to do. It will not go forward as long as I remain here as after 3 years of being project manager, I haven't achieved even 10% of my goals for here.

Keep your 'thoughts' to e-mail or in the suggestions/feedback forum. I bid you adeu.

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The Audoptic Weblog. It's where the magic happens.

Originally posted by IamME:

If jeremy put 3 hours of effort a weekend total, he could have done all of what NS is to date, in around 2 months, EASILY. Its being 10 months, which shows hes put little to no effort into it. End of story, Jeremy is pathetic. Geez Phill pulled neversidian out of his *** faster while drunk than it took jeremy just to get NS online.

Still took Phil nearly 3 months to complete it. Jeremie 'does' work on NS for several hours a day from what I recollect, but hey, who's asking the 25th time banned member Phillip Hayden (Natural Cause) for comment. You hardly have any facts about any of the development team, so go back into your corner of the world with your sheep please.

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The Audoptic Weblog. It's where the magic happens.

And that drunk reference is the single biggest falsehood on these forums, no thanks to noel and rad.

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http://www.philbrodeur.com - Expert PHP Development and Tutorials

i remember rosem from the good ol' days.

i love you guys. take it easy.

i would also like to be active in a part of the photography community. that is all.

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"Not everyone has a sob story, and even if they do, it's no excuse."
i don't even own a tv.

Yes, I use to be quite an active member, and I still am in many other forums (mostly sitepoint). I'll post video tutorials from time to time, and I always get IM's about logo design or something with illustrator.

The problem with TF/Neverside is that I use to frequent TF a lot - think of it as my home. Then one day my home was gone, so I was homeless for a few months - and then at the end of it all, you gave me a shack to live in that wasn't finished and has a breeze coming through the walls. Thats why I'm so negative these days.

For the question as to why I'm still around, I'm just waiting for things to get better (I still like a lot of the community memebers here) - and I'll say what I want until it gets there.

And again Locke, tutorialbuddy was basiclly a summer project to make some money, I think I explained this already. I started it when I got out of school, and sold it when I headed back. Pretty simple plan, that worked.

I'm also not saying I know everything, I'm just pointing out things that I don't see working, or won't work. Take my advice or ignore it, it doesn't really effect me in anyway.

Last edited by rosem, October 8th, 2005 09:40 PM (Edited 1 times)