Neverside

Only that it wasn't. As I pointed out, the government of the U.S. is not a Christian one. It was founded on several ideas of political/constitutional theory (much like the french constitution shortly after), which I pointed out (federalism, democracy, civil rights, etc.).

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Originally posted by wingrunner:

Did any of you guys read Chaka's post?
True Christians do exist, and our government originally started out (in the United States of America) as a Christian Government. If you're truly curious then you should look to the past and read about Abe Lincoln, George Washington and Andrew Jackson who were all Christians and government leaders.

No it wasn't, many of the men who started the US where Christian. But it was far from a Christian government, a Christian society yes and a very influential one at that. A Christian government isn't going to have a separation from state and church nor is it going to allow freedom of religion. If I was to look at even get close to an idea of what a true full blown Christian government would be like I think I would look to some of the smaller Christian utopian societies/towns ect, I'm sure there were/are many outside of the US but I (so far) have only read about ones in the US (doing US History this year) but even toughs are far from what a true Christian government would probably be like. Those societies failed, they were utopias what do you expect lol, I think an actually Christian government would last a lot longer. What would also be king of interesting is, what kind of Christian government? Protestant, Catholic, Baptist ect... So even for a Christian government it still depends on your denomination for some things.

Oh yeah from what I read of Cakas(sp) post it makes it sound like the American-Europeans where out of line when they broke away to make the US. They should have accepted their high taxes and rampet corruption, right?

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So you ask the question, and then tell us our individual answers are wrong? Okay.
If you study the early government of the United States, you will find, that it was probably the one government that was based on religious ideas. More so than any other government of that century or any centuries since.

However to answer you question directly, the only pure Christian form of government would be a monarchy with Jesus Christ as king. According to the Bible, which is what Christians base their beliefs on, this will happen in the end times for a thousand years.

Take it or leave it.

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Quote:

However to answer you question directly, the only pure Christian form of government would be a monarchy with Jesus Christ as king. According to the Bible, which is what Christians base their beliefs on, this will happen in the end times for a thousand years.

Take it or leave it.

I know Iâ??m fairly familiar with the Bible; I love to read revelations lol.

Quote:

So you ask the question, and then tell us our individual answers are wrong? Okay.

Yeah, I was debating from what I know as an ex-Christian, I still do take the time to read and learn the bible btw.

Quote:

If you study the early government of the United States, you will find, that it was probably the one government that was based on religious ideas. More so than any other government of that century or any centuries since.

I have and I am right now, from what I have seen it doesnâ??t seem quiet so. Like I posted before ((((A Christian government isn't going to have a separation from state and church nor is it going to allow freedom of religion))))*I'll take the time to find more if needed* Now I could be wrong about the freedom of religion because "I think" the bible teaches that we should have tolerance for other religions, but Iâ??m not sure.

You tell me to study the early government of the US and I have/am and I haven't seen it to be a very Christian government, I see it as more a government brought up on social ideas and some religious ones. But again I could be wrong so if you could provide some examples backing what you have said I would appreciate it.

Thanks.

Oh btw I saw your stuff in your current battle, great work.

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People without self-doubt scare me.
The world is my country, science is my religion. - Christiaan Huygens
“Don’t take refuge in the false security of consensus.�

Home||Truth|Love

Last edited by Tool, April 23rd, 2005 06:57 AM (Edited 1 times)

Lol, thanks for the comment on the battle.

Seperation of church and state originally meant that the government was not going to regulate what religion people chose (i.e. have or enforce a state's offical religion). If you read the letter that Andrew Jackson (or one of the founding fathers) wrote about seperation of church and state you get this picture. Also I might add that seperation of church and state is not part of the constitution.

Thanks for the clarification on where you're coming from. Might I ask why you left Jesus?

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Quote:

Seperation of church and state originally meant that the government was not going to regulate what religion people chose (i.e. have or enforce a state's offical religion). If you read the letter that Andrew Jackson (or one of the founding fathers) wrote about seperation of church and state you get this picture. Also I might add that seperation of church and state is not part of the constitution.

Hmm, what is it part of? I could have sworn it was in the constitution. Thanks for the info, my views of separation of church and state vary from time to time, what it was meant to be and what it has grown to; in my eyes right now doesnâ??t really matter. Because it governs us now, so what the founder fathers wanted doesnâ??t mater. But what people now want dose, and its split right down the middle too, lol.

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Might I ask why you left Jesus?

I really need to get to my homework so I'm just going to give a very "basic" outline of why. I will go into much greater detail when Iâ??m done.

The first thing was all about feeling, which I know from the Bible is a wrong to go on.
The second is things in the Bible that I wasn't able to find answers to, and I tried to find the them too, I still do. I attend church (waist of time IMO) and I also attend a bible study class (not a waist of time IMO) to try and truly understand the Bible and find out if from what I have learned is it true or not, or if I wish to worship God.
The third thing is, when I view the many Christians around me I see so much hypocrisy, largely from my own mother, it just makes me sick. Also I know this is wrong but, when I see this in so many Christians I only fear that I would become the same. Also I can be a very judgmental person, and to see my self fall for that in as a Christian would just drive me (as I am now) batty.
The forth thing is, I love to think about things and question tons of things use reasoning and logic and what not, and all to often I find my self opposed to Christian ideals (now not always though there are a lot of things I agree with Christians on.
There is a few more but I really need to get going. Please before you respond to this, let me put it down better and in more detail. I only put it down now to kind of give you an idea.

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People without self-doubt scare me.
The world is my country, science is my religion. - Christiaan Huygens
“Don’t take refuge in the false security of consensus.�

Home||Truth|Love

Okay, I'll wait, however I do agree that hypocrasy in the church is probably the worst part of the church. I personally dislike religion, but love God.

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Originally posted by wingrunner:

Okay, I'll wait, however I do agree that hypocrasy in the church is probably the worst part of the church. I personally dislike religion, but love God.

May I ask what you want to express with this contradiction?

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"I disapprove of what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it."
- Voltaire

Sorry Katana, I suppose after reading that it might have been confusing. Let me clarify.

Alot of people in the Church are hypocryts, they go but they don't base their actions on what they claim to believe, this is what I call 'dead religion'. They claim to love God but act completely otherwise, disreguarding completely the Lord's teachings. Now I recognize that we're all sinners and that no one is perfect but I'm not talking about the ones that are striving to improve, I'm talking about the ones who aren't.

When I said I disliked religion I was referring to that, the hypocrasy in alot of religion, and to how many people make the 'ceremonies' more important than what they symbolize. For instance its more important to take communion every week to some people who don't even take it as rememberance of Christ sacrifice for all mankind.

With that being said, I dislike what I see in religion and 'dead religion' but love God and try to follow his teachings in my everyday life.

Tool, still interested in your story.

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Sorry wingruner. I've been packed with alot of work, should be done by tonight though.

Give me a day or so more, it might take some time to write it all out lol.

___________________

People without self-doubt scare me.
The world is my country, science is my religion. - Christiaan Huygens
“Don’t take refuge in the false security of consensus.�

Home||Truth|Love