Neverside

You can hit me with an email, pieter@wingrunner.com if you'd like.

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Digital Art Tennis by the PBA
Digital Art Tennis Pro - Digital Art Team Tennis

Sorry for my horrid procrastination
I'm just going to build on what I said before...

1) The first thing was all about feeling, which I know from the Bible is a wrong to go on.
But it was like a large mass of feelings all pilling up, just questions I was unable to get answer to questionable bible versus, much of the reasoning I had done with myself as to why there may or may not be one. So much was pushing me away and the only thing that truly held my faith together was fear, it's what started my faith in God. The book of Revelations still fascinates me lol.

2) The second is things in the Bible that I wasn't able to find answers to, and I tried to find the them too, I still do. I attend church (waist of time IMO) and I also attend a bible study class (not a waist of time IMO) to try and truly understand the Bible and find out if from what I have learned is it true or not, or if I wish to worship God.

3) The third thing is, I have always had a hard time saying, I love God, even when I was deeply into Christianity. There was no reasoning behind it at all, itâ??s just like that. And if I can't truly love God then why worship him, heaven and hell would be no different to me. Now I'm sure if, say I went to heaven and met God and saw what all he did for me and I was actually able to be there with him and communicate with him, Iâ??m sure I could work it up to finally truly love him. Just like I can't truly deep down inside say I love my Dad. He is a great guy and we have kept in touch, but I haven't seen him or really spent any physical time with him since I was 8, Iâ??m 18 now. I've really tried to do what other Christians have told me to do about this problem. You know to constantly ask God for help and be so thankful of it all, look around and see what great things he has placed in my life and how much better my life was without him. Only problem with the last one was that my life hadn't been any better or worse before I found God. It had actually just gotten ALOT better around when I found out that I was an Atheist for the first time. I finally stood up and realized that I needed to stand up and fix my problems logically. Note before I wasn't really Christian I was just, just, I think I believe in God, but I by far didn't understand him the bible or anything even remotely Christian. I had only gone to church like 10 times before. Oh just so you know I was just turning 17 when I found out I was an Atheist. Good old tutorial forums debate forum, man I owe a lot to this forum lol, I would probably still be a total idiot had I never found this thing.

4) The fourth thing is, when I view the many Christians around me I see so much hypocrisy, largely from my own mother, it just makes me sick. Also I know this is wrong but, when I see this in so many Christians I only fear that I would become the same. Also I can be a very judgmental person, and to see my self fall for that in as a Christian would just drive me batty. Now I know all people are hypocrites from time to time, we either donâ??t realize it or we are just so caught up into whatâ??s going on that we fall victim to hypocrisy. But with so many Christians it's like, wtf hello wake up. I know many Christians who will go out and just get totally wasted, come back and say well the bible says you can drink, and well I just got carried away, what can I say Iâ??m a sinner? And I'm just dumfounded by that. The bad thing is that I saw my self doing it some times, I would screw up and say talk bad about my parents behind their backs, and come back and say well I'm a sinner and I really can't help it. I look back on that now as an Atheist and say, what the hell was wrong with me, thatâ??s so no right, you canâ??t just blow sin off like that. My question to my self is, I have learned nothing new consering anything related to that situation, so why can I now say that but I couldn't then?

5)The fifth thing is, I love to think about things and question tons of things, like use reasoning and logic and what not, and all to often I find my self opposed to Christian ideals (now not always though there are a lot of things I agree with Christians on. largely a lot of political things but then there are things in the bible that I just donâ??t agree with. Like the only way to heaven is thought Jesus. Now I understand why, and the reasoning of it, but can't you live a fairly good life then be brought before God and then really see, wow there really is a god or oh my this is the true god. I mean how forgiving is he? Shouldn't he understand why I felt the way I did, and help me realize why I was wrong and "save" me. He will sertantly know if I am just believing because he is there or if I am truly understanding what he may be teaching or telling me.

Here is a good read, I agree with most of whatâ??s on that page.
http://bikinilane.com/atheism/10bible.shtml

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People without self-doubt scare me.
The world is my country, science is my religion. - Christiaan Huygens
“Don’t take refuge in the false security of consensus.�

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Tool - I have a whole lot of things to say regarding your post, however, I am disinclined to do so on this forum (as I don't believe the conversation would progress very far before getting sidetracked). As such, you have made some tremendously accurate points about Christians, and they deserve to be answered. I am willing to continue this dialogue via email because I feel it be most productive in that medium. If you are so inclined, please email me at celldss@gmail.com & I will respond to your 5 points in turn. If not, then say so & I will direct you to some online information that may be useful. Either way, it's up to you.

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When you are right you cannot be too radical; when you are wrong, you cannot be too conservative. - Martin Luther King, Jr.

I understand, feel free to email me. tool03[at]gmail[dot]com

___________________

People without self-doubt scare me.
The world is my country, science is my religion. - Christiaan Huygens
“Don’t take refuge in the false security of consensus.�

Home||Truth|Love

You people are aware that conservative Christians dominate the government, right?

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-Zach

Male; 30-40 years of age, and Protestant Christian, to be exact. Still doesnâ??t make it a Christian government, just run by people who have labeled them selfâ??s Christians.

___________________

People without self-doubt scare me.
The world is my country, science is my religion. - Christiaan Huygens
“Don’t take refuge in the false security of consensus.�

Home||Truth|Love

Neo, thats an interesting point. Why haven't any of the Judges President Bush been appointed? What about the ones Clinton appointed when he was in power, even if one party holds the majority, the laws have been changed to require 60% instead of the constitutional 51%. I could be mistaken on the numbers but you get the point that even the majority can't do what it was elected (by the majority of the people) to do.

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Digital Art Tennis Pro - Digital Art Team Tennis

Clinton was a Christian, was he not? Every U.S. president has been a Christian. Andrew Jackson, who you keep referring to, wing, was a horrible human being. He was an extreme racist who killed 4,000 people to open more land for slavery. Why use him as an example for the cause for Christianity?

If you'd like to see a Christian form of government, just look throughout Europe's history. See how corrupt government can get when it's based off of religion. Research King Henry VIII and his manipulation of the bible. Pope Urban II, the great schism, the encomienda, etc. are all faults of mixing Christianity with politics.

Last edited by Toast, May 11th, 2005 07:38 PM (Edited 2 times)

Originally posted by Toast:

Clinton was a Christian, was he not? Every U.S. president has been a Christian. Andrew Jackson, who you keep referring to, wing, was a horrible human being. He was an extreme racist who killed 4,000 people to open more land for slavery. Why use him as an example for the cause for Christianity?

If you'd like to see a Christian form of government, just look throughout Europe's history. See how corrupt government can get when it's based off of religion. Research King Henry VIII and his manipulation of the bible. Pope Urban II, the great schism, the encomienda, etc. are all faults of mixing Christianity with politics.

You are making the mistake of assuming that everyone who labels themself a Christian really is a Christian (according to the Bible), and that is wrong. The majority of your examples probably don't apply, as many of those people (the Catholics in particular) were not Christian. Bill Clinton was/is a southern baptist. That makes him a Christian in name only. Jesus said that by their fruits you will know them, and there was no fruit in his life (at least during his public life as president), therefore no reason to conclude that he actually was/is a Christian.

___________________

When you are right you cannot be too radical; when you are wrong, you cannot be too conservative. - Martin Luther King, Jr.

Originally posted by Celldss:

Originally posted by Toast:

Clinton was a Christian, was he not? Every U.S. president has been a Christian. Andrew Jackson, who you keep referring to, wing, was a horrible human being. He was an extreme racist who killed 4,000 people to open more land for slavery. Why use him as an example for the cause for Christianity?

If you'd like to see a Christian form of government, just look throughout Europe's history. See how corrupt government can get when it's based off of religion. Research King Henry VIII and his manipulation of the bible. Pope Urban II, the great schism, the encomienda, etc. are all faults of mixing Christianity with politics.

You are making the mistake of assuming that everyone who labels themself a Christian really is a Christian (according to the Bible), and that is wrong. The majority of your examples probably don't apply, as many of those people (the Catholics in particular) were not Christian. Bill Clinton was/is a southern baptist. That makes him a Christian in name only. Jesus said that by their fruits you will know them, and there was no fruit in his life (at least during his public life as president), therefore no reason to conclude that he actually was/is a Christian.

Right on Celldss.