Neverside

in my eyes religons got a lot to answer for

i think gays should be alowed to get mairied if they wish i mean will it realy do any harm to the world will god smite us all i doute it

Re: Gay marriage solution

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Originally posted by Joking Clown

Both have at least somewhat strong arguements. Marraige has always been between a man and a woman. Marriage is and always has been a religious ceromony. If we were living in the Middle Ages, Gays wouldnt even be considered for marriage. But, we arent. Times have changed, we gave equal rights to women and blacks. We claimed that we should have a separation of church and state.

I disagree. Ive found that, over and over again, the anti-gay-marriage side's argument are rather weak. And Im a crappy debater. Seriously. Gay marriage is the only arguments that Ive never 'lost' at. Well once, but I was inarticulate then.

1. Marriage has always been between a man and a woman...? Uhh, what? It is not right now. Massachusets, right? Then there's a number of places in Canada. Oh, and the Netherlands and Belgium.

Oh, and lets not forget...

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Much to the embarrassment of the Vatican, the Catholic theologian Boswell has uncovered proof that, up until the fourteenth century, the church was routinely performing wedding ceremonies for same-sex couples.

2. Really? According to my research (and keep in mind that I HAVNT done a huge amount of research, so this may be wrong) marriage is not connected to a particular religion. Why then should theology interfere?

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This is how marriage works in the US. The bride- and groom-to-be go to the County Clerk's office and file for a marriage license. They get the license and generally, it's good from the day after it's issued until two months from date it's issued. The license can only be used in the county where the marriage is to be conducted. The couple has whatever ceremony they prefer, conducted by someone who has the legal authority to conduct a marriage. (Just about all religions recognized by the state are granted the authority to conduct a marriage that will be respected by the state.) If they don't care for a religious ceremony, a judge of the county can conduct a ceremony. Each state has a set of scripts available to these judges that the couple may select from for their ceremony. Whenever the ceremony is completed, the couple has 14 days to return the filled-out license to the County Clerk's office. When the license is turned in, the marriage is complete.

Start to finish, Christ never has to enter the picture.

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Originally posted by Tool You cant have governments telling religius people to change their religion just like that, it will only bring about trubble for the country, and the past just happens to be a great example of that.

Er, and how would allowing gay marriage be doing this?

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This argument, usually advanced by churches that oppose gay marriage, is simply not true. There is nothing in any marriage law, existing or proposed, anywhere in the United States, that does or would have the effect of requiring any church to marry any couple they do not wish to marry. Churches already can refuse any couple they wish, and for any reason that suits them, which many often do, and that would not change. Some churches continue to refuse to marry interracial couples, others interreligious couples, and a few refuse couples with large age disparities and for numerous other reasons. Gay marriage would not change any church's right to refuse to sanctify any marriage entirely as they wish - it would simply offer churches the opportunity to legally marry gay couples if they wish, as some have expressed the desire to do - the freedom of religion would actually be expanded, not contracted.

It would only be interfering if the government commanded the Church to change its beliefs... which its not. Right?
Then again, maybe the Government should interfere when religious practices happen to be particularly harmful... like this. The amount of gay children who kill themselves is creepy. I was almost one of them, but Im glad I didnt. Silly that would have been. Cant fight when your dead can you?
Read Prayers for Bobby.

I find it funny when religious people bleat out to me passages condemning homosexuality. My tactic is to repeat such parts of the Bible which state women are inferior, or who should be stoned to death and why... Good times. ^_^

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Last edited by NARFism, November 19th, 2004 10:46 PM (Edited 1 times)

Like I said before, I mainly said the religious arguement was somewhat valid so no one would be offended. But appearently everysingle person here is for gay marriage, which totally rocks. . Anyways, you might be curious, "why care if they get offended?" Well, my answer is that if they are offended, they will be on the offensive and refuse to even listen to my side of the arguement (whatever im arguing about). Since I dont particularly enjoy sqabbling over nothing, i try to be logical, reasonable, and kind when I argue.

With that said, the anti-gay marriage is choke full of holes. Te only way it could possibly be kind of acceptable is if the same people also demanded no athiests or divorcees could get married. (if you follow part of the bible, you gotta follow it all).

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Haven't read all the posts upwards, but just one thing: In belgium marriage is seperated in a religious and a civil part. Some people prefer to only have the civil wedding while most opt for a civil wedding followed (when the weather is nice etc...) for the fullon religious ceremony. So it's not a new solution, it has existed for quite a while.

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Quote:

Er, and how would allowing gay marriage be doing this?

Because it gose agenst what they believe! Im only talking about in a religius manner though, not civil.

You cant tell people to change their religion, just like no one can tell you what to believe. Do you understand what Im saying? Im not saying gay mariage in a civil-union will be bad, im saying forcing people to marry gays(thouse who dont believe they should) in a religus manner will bring about bad things.
Anyway its not like gays can't be married though the church, there are lots of churches that have done it allready.

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Originally posted by Evil Rabbit
Haven't read all the posts upwards, but just one thing: In belgium marriage is seperated in a religious and a civil part. Some people prefer to only have the civil wedding while most opt for a civil wedding followed (when the weather is nice etc...) for the fullon religious ceremony. So it's not a new solution, it has existed for quite a while.

See why cant we be more like Belgium?

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Originally posted by NARFism
I find it funny when religious people bleat out to me passages condemning homosexuality. My tactic is to repeat such parts of the Bible which state women are inferior, or who should be stoned to death and why... Good times. ^_^

Yea funny stuff... Thouse without sin may cast the first stone, Yup yup funny stuff alright.

You have to remember the Bible is basicly two parts, The old testament (where most people find most of the "bad" stuff, and The new testament (witch offten "contradics" or over-rides parts of The old testament)

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Last edited by Tool, November 22nd, 2004 10:30 PM (Edited 1 times)

Investment banking is the ultimate cause of the problems facing society today. The best and most complete course of action is to shut down the corporate machine, and replace it with a cleaner, more efficient machine. A machine built by the people, for the people.

As soon as we accomplish this, we can all be happy for the rest of our time here on Earth. Gay rights will no longer be the issue. Sexuality will be completely gone, because without such monsters as Wal-Mart, there would be no reason to have sex. With sex gone, love would be gone, and therefore the desire to marry a person would be gone.

Take an axe to the corporate tree, everyone. Do your part to make the world a more mediocre (mediocre in a good--very good--way) place!

Who needs money anyhow? What we really need is a dictator. I nominate myself.

By the way, Wal-Mart actually is great. Which is the reason why it MUST die. Do you all understand?

If not, you are stupid beyond credibility. Oh, and here's a hint: blame Canada! Microsoft has been in bed with Canada for years now! Are you people blind? You're getting anally raped by Canada and Microsoft, leaving Wal-Mart powerless to stop us from shutting it down!

Attack today!

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People without self-doubt scare me.
The world is my country, science is my religion. - Christiaan Huygens
“Don’t take refuge in the false security of consensus.�

Home||Truth|Love

Popo, you've decided to just forget about saying anything even slightly logical now? Reducing yourself to spam, or what?

On topic:
Having gays be able to marry would not infringe on the rights of other religions, period. Marriage was once strictly religious, yes, but those times have passed. Marriage can now be completely separate from religion if it needs to be, as it will be when I eventually get married. It also holds monetary benefits in the US, i.e. tax breaks. So why are we excluding a whole huge group of people from something just because they love the same sex as opposed to the opposite sex? It's not infringing on religion in the least. If a religion doesn't want them to marry, fine, don't marry them in your place of worship. But for goodness sake, just let them be able to marry and have those monetary benefits.

Edit: yay! 3000th post!

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Quote:

Originally posted by Tool
You have to remember the Bible is basicly two parts, The old testament (where most people find most of the "bad" stuff, and The new testament (witch often "contradicts" or over-rides parts of The old testament)

I never have understood why those people should have different laws then us. It doesnt make sense.

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The Nazis were Patriotic.
Clowns!
Canniballism!
Murder!
Pedophiles!

Quote:

Originally posted by Joking Clown
I never have understood why those people should have different laws then us. It doesnt make sense.

lmao!!! ok, you obviously have never read the bible or if you have, havnt understood it properly. The old testament is all about prophesy and the new testament is about the fulfilling of that prophesy.

i personally do not think that gay marrage should be allowed, what is marrage about? if you look at the roots it is about being joined together before God as one and if the bible says that homosexuality is not right, then homosexuals should not be allowed to marry..

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