Neverside

Downloading Music

I think that it is dumb that everyone is now like oh downloading musics illegal and they stop. I think this world needs some more common sense.

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http://ross.sytesolutions.com/p/

they have stopped?

at the end of the day, the simple fact is, if you download any form of copyrighted material, be it music, images, etc, you are breaking copyright laws, denying the artists rightful royalties on thier art forms, and basically stealing. Simple fact really.

Just cos you can steal, does it mean you should?

Thats something each of us have to justify to ourselves and live with the consequences.

Personally, I prefer to respect fellow artists and pay for the stuff I get, but ymmv....

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'..Happy New 2004..' ~PS/Debate Mod &TF Advisor ~

I download songs by artists to get a feel for them, and if I like them, I buy their CD.

I can honestly say I've never burned a CD that is a full one, always been an assorted compilation.

Yes, I know downloading songs is illegal, but would mp3.com, and other such 'legized' (or whatever the word is) sites by considered illegal too? I'm kinda wondering why the RIAA aren't going after mp3.com. Unless they're somehow legal.

The music industry vs warez is a catch 22, basically. Fans ***** that CD's cost too much, so they download. But part of the reason they do cost so much is because so many CD's are downloaded, the record companies need to increase the price. I think CD's could easily be around $5-10, enough to cover the cost of makin git and make a nice profit.

This is a logn read here : quoted from http://www.irenejackson.com/cd.html#budget

Quote:

Recording Costs: A standard studio rate might be, say, $25 an hour.

12 songs @ an average of 6 hours each = 72 hours.

$25 X 72 hours = $1800

The mixing process is often slightly more expensive per hour, but let's just say they charge you the same standard rate:

$25 X 6 hours = $150

For my mastering process, it cost me $650 for 11 songs. Let's just add that to the pot:

$1800 + $150 + $650 = $2600

Then we need to consider the artwork. I strongly recommend you hire a graphic artist. You can cut costs by doing it yourself, BUT there are so many requirements by manufacturers that can be SUCH a pain to fix over and over again, that it could end up costing you everytime you have to fix something! Many manufacturers have templates for graphic artists to go by, thereby reducing the possibility of the CD cover looking like someone drew it with pencil crayons and didn't get the lines quite straight :-) A decent graphic artist will cost you anywhere from $400 to $1000. Yep. So, let's take an average and make it $700.

$2600 + $700 = $3300

And we haven't even manufactured anything yet!

The manufacturer will charge you anywhere between $1.50 and $2.50 a CD. That doesn't sound like very much except for one thing. That is that they have a minimum amount that you have to have manufactured, around 500. If you have to send them a DAT tape instead of a CD-R, it'll cost extra. The printing will often cost extra too. My last manufacturing of 500 CD's cost me $1700. So let's add that to the pot:

$3300 + $1700 = $5000

So basically, it costs $5000 to make a CD. Then using this resource here
http://www.barscott.com/recording.shtml

Quote:

For instance, each of my three CDs cost about $15,000 to record and manufacture. Initially, I pressed 1000 copies of each. Easy math. Each individual CD cost me $15 to make. Needless to say, when you buy a copy of one of my records for $15, I do not make any money

So going back to the original quote, for the $5000 CD, it would be $5 a CD to make no profit. $10 a CD, and the fans are happy, cheaper CD, and the artist/label gets a 100% Profit. Yes, not every CD is going to cost exactly $5000, some may cost a whole lot more (ie. the second example), but with the kind of resources the labels have, plus several 'specials', a major label CD of a major label band, e.g. Blink 182, Britney Spears, N Sync....can easily get away with a $10 CD plus tax.

I dunno, that's being idealistic, to be realistic, probably nothing can change. Fans are buying CD's (for the most part) for $20-30 a pop. Labels are making tons of profit, and artists getting about 5% of anything.

Stupid Capitalism

[/end rant]

I apologise for the long post, wanted to get all my thoughts out

-G

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"I once knew a man who said death smiles at us all;
All a man can do is smile back."

-Gladiator

ya but like my teachers like did u just see on the news that downloading music off kazaa is illigal. I think some people arent too intelligant beacuse if your getting anything that sells places in large amounts its probly illegal.

sorry for spelling
and ya i dont download alot once in a while ill dowload a song but not like some people do like i just bought the audioslave cd instead of downloading it beacuse first itd take me forever to download all those songs on 56k and second it wasnt that much money.

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http://ross.sytesolutions.com/p/

Last edited by Silvercool, October 28th, 2003 10:34 PM (Edited 1 times)

one also has to consider market forces in the equation..... if a consumer feels the price is reasonable, 9 times out of 10 they will purchase it, however, if they feel they are being 'ripped off' then the tendency is to steal or buy on the black market etc.

much the same as in the old days of 'prohibition'. Booze was made illgal, and everyone just went underground to get it.

Charge a 'fair price' for a CD, and ppl will usually buy it. Rip ppl off, and they will steal it.....

If Recording Co's came clean about how much they actually make, and how much they actually pay their artists, I bet we would see we are being ripped... hmmmmmmmmmm

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'..Happy New 2004..' ~PS/Debate Mod &TF Advisor ~

We think alike, my man.

We think alike.

You just articulated it alot better and shorter than I :-/.

How much do you think the artists make off each sale?

-G

___________________

"I once knew a man who said death smiles at us all;
All a man can do is smile back."

-Gladiator

thats a tough question, however, as far as In know, it has more to do with 'record contracts' than anything else.

It seems that many artists are forced into signing up for multiple albums, and are paid a small percentage per CD, usually they make jack on thier first few albums/CD's.

I am not an expert by any means, maybe some here knows the music industry and can fill us in...

if it was me, I would give 75% to the artists and 25% to the record Co's, but I m sure it is no where near that.... lol

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'..Happy New 2004..' ~PS/Debate Mod &TF Advisor ~

I just think people should support the artists they like.

If you want to 'get a feel' for the artist, then go to their webpage or a site that lets you listen to part of a song. Or, go to Barnes & Noble. Or go to any record store for that matter.

So there is really no reason to download. Unless you are poor.

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I'd like to revisit Gom's thread. While the spirit of it is absolutely correct, I just wanted to point out that some of the actual numerical figured are somewhat off.

For a home-brew, small-town band to record, yes, studio time may well be $25/hr...for a mom&pop basement studio with modest rigging and no name. Fly to Nashville, and you'll see very different figures. A lot of the studios I've seen or even recorded in have been upwards of $3000-$5000/hr. If you were to fly to Abbey Road in London, a world renowned studio, you could expect to pay ten times that amount. Also, rather than bring in their own gear, a lot of bands will often rent studio equipment (which is kept in pristine condition) which can cost thousands more (this is often a case with percussion) and even hire professional studio musicians to come in and record the parts; again, thousands more.

This is becoming more and more prohibitive...it's a means for studios needing a sountrack to get the job done, but for self-made bands (for instance, Creed or Incubus) this is no longer an option. So what do these bands do? They buy a house, build a studio in it, live there for six months to a year, record the album, then sell off the house. Yes, there IS a return at the end, and they can use that money to record the next album, but you have to start somewhere. It costs money, but considering the hourly going rate of a top-notch studio these days, it's far better to build in and then live in your own studio where you can take your time and get the album done RIGHT rather than have to rush because you're paying hundreds of dollars for every wasted minute.

The gear alone is very expensive, but can be reused. I remember my uncle doing this very same thing...building a studio on his estate to save costs renting. The mixing board alone cost $85,000!

I just wanted to put things into perspective. Really, record companies are nothing more than banks and go-betweens. A lot of people think that getting signed is a big deal. It's actually not...it's basically just going into debt to a group of people who believe they will see a return in the money they invest in you because your talent will earn more than they spend promoting it.

Record companies loan artists the money to go into a professional studio, take the loan amount plus HEFTY interest out of the earnings of said album and act as the go-between from the artist to the distributor, who puts the album into record stores.

If they can get the means, a lot of artists are going the way of being self-made. They buy the equipment out of their own pockets, record the album, send it to a mastering house, then send it to a duplication house. They are signing their own deals with distributors, and OWN their own songs. They can release them online if they want...they hire managers who work with other managers of other bands to set up tours.

There are people out there who ARE sick of being screwed by the RIAA and are sick of their fans being screwed by the RIAA. It's starting small, but we're slowly turning this thing around.

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Bmovies are BACK!

Downloading music is dumb cmon ppl look at the prices on cds now they have dropped alot.

ps.

Does Scatman have a cd... i cant seem to find it anywhere im a techno, all -round freak. :imstupid: