Neverside

Quote:

Originally posted by akdov
You are misinformed. The founding fathers did not "found" the pledge. They had absolutely nothing to do with it. It was not formed until 1892, barely 100 years ago.
http://history.vineyard.net/pledge.htm
http://www.usflag.org/pledgeofallegiance.html

You are obviously misinformed. This debate is about taking "One nation under God" out of the Pledge of Allegiance. Your link reference explicitly states that "One nation under God" was instituted in 1954. Not 1892. I realize that you are saying that the Pledge was made in 1892. But that has no relevance to this debate, nor to what you were trying to prove.

I do not think that "One nation under God" should be taken out. It is not forcing religion apon anyone. By not saying the Pledge of Allegiance, one is showing their disrespect for America.

I seriously doubt that the Atheists on this board have studied Christianity. Infact, I am willing to bet my life that only the Christians on this board have examined the facts and beliefs of Christianity.

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I'm not saying the founding fathers wrote the pledge. I'm saying they made this country. And the pledge salutes the flag and this country, and its roots, and all that it stands for. this was FOUNDED as"one nation, under god" in the eyes of the founders. I say, we give them that.

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:: pop ::

Quote:

Originally posted by Time Bomb
You are obviously misinformed. This debate is about taking "One nation under God" out of the Pledge of Allegiance. Your link reference explicitly states that "One nation under God" was instituted in 1954. Not 1892. I realize that you are saying that the Pledge was made in 1892. But that has no relevance to this debate, nor to what you were trying to prove.

I do not think that "One nation under God" should be taken out. It is not forcing religion apon anyone. By not saying the Pledge of Allegiance, one is showing their disrespect for America.

I seriously doubt that the Atheists on this board have studied Christianity. Infact, I am willing to bet my life that only the Christians on this board have examined the facts and beliefs of Christianity.

You should take into mind the context I was posting too. I replied right after Heri, who said then that the founding father's founded the pledge (but clarified the statement later). I never said that "One nation under God" was implemented with the Pledge of Allegiance. That's the reason I provided the links, is to be informative.

Don't brand me as anti-American for the following remarks, these are just based on my opinions and experiences.

I refuse to recite the Pledge of Allegiance because:
1. It was written by a well known socialist of the time. Even during the time when socialist were ridiculed along with suspected communists, the government kept the Pledge.
2. It is forced upon us. When I was a freshmen in high school, my AP Chemistry teacher (who happened to be home room) would make us stand and recite the pledge. If we didn't, he would write us up as insubordinate, which isn't right, because a good eigth of the school wasn't even American. Everywhere you go, you are expected to stand and recite the Pledge, otherwise people stare and tend to look at you differently. Not right.
3. America is just plain mean. You travel to ANY country in the world (with the exception of some Arab nations and Canada, no offense to Canucks here, it's just the truth) you will find people more than willing to be nice to you. Most other countries in the world are happy to be where they are from. They are patriotic almost all of the time, while here in the USA, people are only ever patriotic in times of devastation.

Go to another country and see how they treat each other and see how they treat Americans when you seek help. They will try and break the language barrier and accomadate you. Here in the USA, a foreigner comes up to us and asks for help, what do we do? "Learn Engligh" "Go over there and find out"
We do almost nothing to help them, while they go out of their way to help us.

[end of rant]

EDIT: Note about the Canadians part. I'm not saying Canadians are mean, I'm saying that a lot of Canadians see first hand how rude and obnoxious Americans can be. Most Canadians I know would just be content if there were no USA, while others have no problem. Just expressing what I have experienced/heard.

Last edited by evan, October 28th, 2003 05:10 PM (Edited 1 times)

I'm not really patriotic, I'm just proud to be canadian and happy to live here. I have a Canadian flag hanging on a wall in my room, and I'm going to buy the Union Jack whenever I get money.....I'm proud of the two countries (well, I should get the British flag, to be exact....the red cross thing...but the Union Jack looks cooler ) I come from, but not gonna go around with 10 kajillion flags from my car, pretending my country is special because it is.

Or sometin

I thought I exited the thread? :confused:

-G

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"I once knew a man who said death smiles at us all;
All a man can do is smile back."

-Gladiator

Quote:

Originally posted by akdov
Don't brand me as anti-American for the following remarks, these are just based on my opinions and experiences.

I didn't brand you as "Anti-American". I said that refusing to say the Pledge is showing disrespect for America.

Quote:

Originally posted by akdov
Go to another country and see how they treat each other and see how they treat Americans when you seek help. They will try and break the language barrier and accomadate you. Here in the USA, a foreigner comes up to us and asks for help, what do we do? "Learn Engligh" "Go over there and find out"
We do almost nothing to help them, while they go out of their way to help us.

By 'we' I am assuming that you mean Americans. You are making a HUGE generalization, and I think that you are wrong. I am certainly not like that, and I do not know anyone who would do that.

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Where have you traveled inside the USA? If you go somewhere that you are not from, you will find that people are very rude to you. Same way with CA. I live in the San Diego area. If I go to LA or SF and try to ask people something they will blow you off most the time. Most people in the USA are rude to those not from that area.

Inside of California I have traveled to El Centro, Los Angeles, Sacramento, San Fransisco, Lake Arrowhead, and many other places. Across the U.S. I have traveled to Oregon, Texas, Illinois, Navada, Maryland, the District of Columbia, and Virginia. I have never met someone who has been rude to me. Infact, everyone I had met and encountered was very nice and respectful to me.

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He's not saying everyone does, just a general stereotype : Americans IN GENERAL are too patriotic to see out from someplace other than high in the sky. Same with the French. Not saying everyone us, just those two countries in general rather snobby, rude and disrespectful. Obviously, many, many, many exceptions, but in general.

Same with how the British used to viewed that way, and all Canadians like hockey. General stereotypes that still prove true, albeit they fluctuate, and obviously with many exceptions.

-G

___________________

"I once knew a man who said death smiles at us all;
All a man can do is smile back."

-Gladiator

*joins in again*

Many people claim they've read the Bible through serveral times and still don't believe most of what it says. It's because they are too stubborn to believe it.

Putting it into perspective, something that is true is true whether you believe it or not. It's hard for people to comprehend that statment, because if we truely don't believe something is true then in our minds it's not true and if it was true our minds have shut the truth out... Many people get the idea that if they don't believe it, then it's not true. But if you go from that point of view, every single bit of logic or fact on the face of the earth can be false if you don't believe it is true.

Put simply, everyone will find the truth upon their death. Whether you believe in God or not, your going to find the truth of whether He exists or not when you die. The only problem with that is once your dead it's too late to backup and start over again. Don't you want to know the Truth now before you go down a road that's to small to turn around (die)?

I could easily take you all to Scripture and make it simple. But as it appears, you have blocked the Bible out of your facts list and logic list... ::

ok i havent read all these posts but I think if you dont want to do it dont do it period they dont force you to like grab u and say do the pledge or else or somthing. jist dont do it or stand up and dont say it but i think u should stand up to show respect if you like being an american.

well thats just my opinion.

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